Post over at BeDeviant

I just posted over at bedeviant.com. The question was great, in my opinion; in few words, describe the lay vocation (stated a little differently).

I thought it was cool until it turned insanely 'non-denominational-esque'. Which is expected, since I can see that this is the trend that many Lutheran youth workers are leaning in general. I know, because I did it once too. Here is my response after reading response and response about the 'old-traditional, outdated' (and Biblical, I might add) way of doing things.

Wow. I have to say that I completely disagree with this, based on theology and experience, although it makes sense based on our differing experiences (I'm a convert to Catholicism from Lutheranism and Non-denominationalism, I'm 23).

I don't mean to be a constant nag, but how do we deal with the ordained ministers of the New Covenant that are called apostles (cf. Eph. 4:11), elders (Jas. 5:14), bishops (1 Tim. 3:1), and deacons (1 Tim. 3:8ff)? How about in James, for example, when somebody is sick, the elders are called in and not just 'normal laity'? How about the myriad of quotes from the years of the Apostles regarding them being the Bishops and the laity listening to them? What is the meaning of excommunication that the Scriptures talk about?

I believe there is more to hierarchy then some sort of 'un-cool thing of the past'. It's Biblical. Paul himself was an Apostle, a Bishop, who, precisely because he was a pastor, gave commands to people.

Lastly, if what you are saying is true, and much of it is, how do you deal with the following verses in Titus 1?
7 For a bishop, as God's steward, must be blameless; he must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain,
8 but hospitable, a lover of goodness, master of himself, upright, holy, and self-controlled;
9 he must hold firm to the sure word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to confute those who contradict it.
10 For there are many insubordinate men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially the circumcision party;
11 they must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for base gain what they have no right to teach.

Sounds pretty hierarchical to me. Where is that in today's 'modern' trends?

One more thing. I can't say I "completely" disagree. Of course, as Hebrews points out, we are all priests of the New Covenant who are all supposed to offer spiritual sacrifices to God. Instead of getting rid of the offices which Jesus gave through Paul, we should just come to a better understanding and embracing of the lay vocation, without diminishing the beauty of the ordained ministry. Both are equally holy. Both are equally given. Both are equally necessary for the Kingdom of God. And we ought to discern which vocation Jesus gives to us and pray for the grace to accept it with courage and joy.

Now, they have great points. And yes, there was a great period of time where most of the evangelization was expected to be done by the great religious orders, like the Dominicans and the Franciscans. They did a great job, by the way. But Jesus through the Second Vatican Council reminded the Church of the gift of his Holy Spirit given in the sacraments, especially in Baptism and Confirmation, in which we are each enabled to evangelize. I think that is what the post was getting at and I highly doubt that any writer was intentionally trying to beat-down the Church specifically.

I had a good time reflecting on this, however. :)

LJCNIA.